Bloomberg Opinion columnist Barry Ritholtz interviews journalist Bethany McLean, a contributing editor at Vanity Fair and author of the recently released "Saudi America: The Truth About Fracking and How It's Changing the World." McLean also co-wrote "All the Devils Are Here: The Hidden History of the Financial Crisis" and "The Smartest Guys in the Room: The Amazing Rise and Scandalous Fall of Enron." She was previously editor at large of Fortune and spent three years working at Goldman Sachs as an investment banking analyst.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Bloomberg Opinion columnist Barry Ritholtz interviews Rick Wilson, a political strategist and one of the first (and most prominent) "Never Trump" Republicans. Wilson, who has decades of experience producing campaign ads, writes a regular column for The Daily Beast and frequently appears as a TV news analyst. He's the author of "Everything Trump Touches Dies: A Republican Strategist Gets Real About the Worst President Ever."  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.