#145: When Rand Fishkin was 25 years old, he carried $500,000 in credit card debt. Less than a decade later, Rand was the Founder and CEO of a company that grossed $35 million in annual revenue. In this podcast episode, Rand shares the story of hitting his financial rock-bottom and making the ultimate comeback. _______ The saga began in 2001, when then-22-year-old Rand dropped out of his senior year of college to grow a business with his mom. His mom Gillian owned a small marketing company that helped local businesses with tasks like placing ads in Yellow Pages. (If you don't know what that is, ask someone over 30.) Rand had an early entrepreneurial streak, and had spent the late 1990's and early 2000's working part-time for his mom's business. By his senior year, he was ready to dive in full-time. Gillian and Rand both realized the internet was more than a passing fad. Households were switching from dial-up modems to broadband connections. Clients were more interested in websites than Yellow Pages ads. The mother-son duo decided to start designing websites for local businesses. From 2001 to 2004, they hired contractors, rented office space, hosted booths at conferences, and purchased advertising. They paid for most of this with personal credit cards in Rand's name. By 2004, they'd accumulated $150,000 in credit card debt. Then they defaulted. They couldn't make the minimum payments anymore. The interest and late fees grew this balance to an astronomical $500,000. They decided not to declare bankruptcy. Instead, they took a two-pronged approach: Rand's mom spent the next three years negotiating with creditors, getting big chunks of the interest and late fees waived in exchange for making payments on the principle balance. Meanwhile, Rand focused on growing the business. Several of his clients needed help with a specific aspect of internet marketing called search engine optimization, or SEO. Rand began researching SEO tactics and started a blog to share his findings. This blog attracted new clients, and soon Rand developed a reputation as an SEO expert. He created a company called SEOMoz, later rebranded as Moz, to offer consulting services for businesses. After a few years, his company started developing and selling subscriptions to SEO software tools, as well. By the time Rand stepped down from his role as CEO, the company had raised multiple rounds of funding and was collecting $35 million in annual revenue. But there's a difference between a company's earnings and the personal income of its founders. Today, Rand and his wife still have a liquid net worth that's less than one million. How did Rand transition from carrying $500,000 in debt to becoming the founder and CEO of a successful eight-figure company? Why isn't he a millionaire yet? And what lessons about entrepreneurship and finance can he share with the world? Find out in this podcast episode. ___ P.S. Rand's wife, Geraldine DeRuiter, is a hilarious travel writer and an alumni guest of this podcast. You can listen to her interview in Episode 77. http://podcast.affordanything.com/9-years-nonstop-travel-geraldine-deruiter-everywhereist/ P.P.S. If you'd like to learn more about starting a blog, check out this free tutorial. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

#143: Emma Pattee became a millionaire at age 26. But she hates it when I describe her like that. Here are other ways that Emma would prefer to be known: She's thoughtful. She's hilarious. She's kind. Emma is the child of hippies. She grew up in a tent in Oregon, at least for a portion of her childhood. She has a BFA in writing from Emerson College. She bought her first house at age 21. At the time, Emma was juggling a demanding full-time job with her ambitions of becoming a writer. This balancing act felt too tough. She felt motivated to quit her job as quickly as possible, so that she could devote her time to writing. She moved in with her boyfriend's parents, saved 70 percent of her income, and contemplated what to do next. She decided to "buy a small house in a not-so-nice neighborhood, and live for free by renting out enough rooms to cover my mortgage and make a little money on the side." But then she developed an addiction to real estate. She kept buying houses and converting them into rental properties. She DIY'ed some projects and hired contractors for other projects. She improved the homes and raised the rents. She reinvested the cash flow into buying more houses. She borrowed against the equity and bought even more houses. And that's how Emma, by age 26, became a millionaire. Her seven-figure net worth -- and more importantly, the cash flow that accompanied it -- allowed Emma to reach financial independence. She could stop trading her time for a paycheck. Emma quit her job at age 26 and dove into the world of self-employment, starting a lucrative one-woman enterprise as a professional ghostwriter. She writes books and articles, for which her clients receive authorship credit. In exchange for this effort, Emma makes a substantial amount of money. So who is Emma Pattee? She's a financially independent millionaire real estate investor who started a lucrative self-employment business as a writer. (Sound familiar?) Among the many words in that sentence, the most important word, to Emma, is the word "writer." That's why she started down this path. She wasn't trying to become wealthy. She wanted to become a self-funded artist. She wanted, simply, to write. __ Emma is a close friend. She was my guest of honor, my Plus One, when I delivered my keynote speech at the World Domination Summit last month. She's my travel buddy and real estate investing companion; we visited Alabama last year to check out potential investments in Birmingham and Montgomery. She and I have talked about meeting occasionally for writing retreats. In today's episode, Emma and I sit down at her dining room table, plug in a microphone, and hit "record." In the 30-minute conversation that follows, we talk about how and why we reached financial independence -- and what comes next. Enjoy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices